Debate Of The Young Sports Minds: Cubs or Rays?

This is our third debate, and so far we've covered college football and golf. Now, with the long and often times slow-moving baseball regular season is coming to an end, we've decided to talk about which story would be better: The Chicago Cubs or the Tampa Bay Rays winning the World Series.

It was Barnes' idea to turn this thing into a voting contest, and thanks to all of your votes, I am a perfect two-for-two. I am attempting the debate-trifecta by backing the Cubs. As always, please leave comments for us at the end. Enjoy.

MATT BARNES: September 22nd, 1:49 PM

In a time in baseball where teams with lower payrolls are given almost no chance to compete, it's refreshing to see a team like Tampa Bay make the playoffs. And if you ask me, if both the Cubs and Rays make the World Series, the Rays are the better story.Just think, this is the same team that went 66-96 last season, the worst record in all of baseball. And in the nine years before that, the team had only one 70-win season. Talk about being bad. But despite all that, they pulled all of its talent together this year and clinched a playoff berth. Now, that's a team that anyone can root for.

And unlike the Cubs who have a rich history with Hall of Famers and even a World Series, the Rays pretty much have no history. This is their first playoff berth of all-time and they are doing it with 15 players that are 25 and younger. Even their manager is a great story. The highest level he ever played in was Class A and after quitting his playing career, he worked his way from the minor league ranks (he started in Idaho Falls-Class A) to his first managerial position in Tampa. Plus, Don Zimmer is the senior baseball advisor and who wouldn't wanna see Zim get one more ring.

I have many more reasons for why the Rays are the better story but I'll make this something like an opening argument and leave it open now. Congrats to the Rays though for making the playoffs. Proving people wrong one game at a time and now, slowly becoming America's favorite team to root for to win the World Series.

LUKE FLORENCE: September 23rd, 12:12 AM

First of all, if both the Cubs and Devil Rays (they will always be the Devil Rays in my book) make the World Series, let me be the first to offer condolences to my father (Big John). He is a huge Casey Blake fan, and with the Indians slumping, the only thing he has going is Casey Blake thriving with the Dodgers. A Cubs-Rays World Series would devastate him. Okay, after I got that out of the way, let's talk some baseball.

I've been rooting for the Rays all season long for all of those reasons Matt mentions. They are young, never had a winning record, and are flat out fun to watch. However, the story for the Rays is making the playoffs, NOT making the World Series. The better story in the Cubs-Rays hypothetical match-up is without a doubt the Chicago Cubs.
You have to be careful Barnes, making a statement that includes both the Cubs and a "rich history." Ask any knowledgeable sports fan, and they will tell you, the Cubs have one of the most depressing histories in all of professional sports. They haven't won a World Series since 1908. They have the Curse of the Billy Goat. They have Steve Bartman. They have Lou Pinella pulling Carlos Zambrano early in Game One of the NLDS last year to save him for a Game Four that never came. None of that seems particularly "rich" to me. If you are talking about the Cubs BEFORE 1910, then yea, I guess they had a pretty impressive history.

Don't get me wrong, the Rays making the World Series would be an incredible achievement, but you are not going to find ANY disappointed Rays fans if they fall short in October. For them, just making it to October is monumental. However, the Cubs would be heart-broken again if they failed to win the World Series.

We all remember where we were when the Red Sox finally broke the curse, even if you weren't a fan of those Pawtucket players. They had so much negative history behind them that you almost had to root for them (after the Indians were gone mind you). The same applies for the Cubbies. The Rays are too young of a franchise to be the better story here. It has to be Chicago, their back-story continues to set them up for a memorable World Series celebration, whenever it finally takes place.

MATT BARNES: September 23rd, 1:28 PM

Well, first of all, I hope Big John gets his wish. I don't wanna see him depressed. Plus, even I wanna see the Casey Blake playoff beard make a return. But back to the topic ...

I'm glad to see that you have been rooting for the Rays as you should, considering their amazing rise from futility. They are the definition of an underdog defying the odds already and to add a World Series to that would just be amazing. And who does not like the Rays? They have no natural rivals so everyone is behind them unlike the Cubs. While many would like to see the Cubbies break their supposed "curse," there are many in Chicago that would love to see the Cubs choke again.

And to say that the Cubs don't have a rich history is just flat-out wrong. They've been around since 1874. Thirty-seven Hall of Famers have played for the Cubs, including the likes of Billy Williams, Ryne Sandberg and "Mr. Cub" Ernie Banks. Nine different Cubs have won the MVP award, including Sammy Sosa, Andre Dawson and Rogers Hornsby. Four pitchers have won Cy Youngs, including Greg Maddux and Bruce Sutter and since 1960, they have won 35 gold gloves. And the amount of all-stars ... well, let's not go there.

Now, let's take a look at the Rays. Been around since 1998. The only Hall of Famer to play for them was Wade Boggs and that was at the end of his career when he could barely run the bases. Besides 1999 (Jose Canseco and Roberto Hernandez) and this season (Scott Kazmir, Evan Longoria, and Dioner Navarro), they've only had the mandatory one all-star and some of those names are laughable (Lance Carter, Danys Baez, Greg Vaughn and Fred McGriff).And let's not forget, the Rays are doing all of this with the lack of any fan base and nice stadium. So to see them overcome all of these odds is just refreshing to see in a sport where money makes teams good. That's not the case for this team with a total payroll of $43 million. That's less than Carlos Zambrano, Aramis Ramirez and Alfonso Soriano combined ($45 million).

In the end, the Rays are not only more fun to watch and more fun to root for by everyone. You mentioned the Red Sox winning their title. Problem for the Cubs now is that since the Sox did it, seeing the Cubs win a World Series just isn't as big or as good of a story anymore, but the Rays' uprising in just one year definitely is one for the record books. Here's hoping that they win the whole thing and become the best sports story of the year.

LUKE FLORENCE: September 24th, 1:40 AM

Yeah, you can't go wrong with the Casey Blake playoff beard. Wait, what am I saying? Last time Blake was in the playoffs, he gave a crucial ground ball the old Roger Dorn "ole" late in Game Seven of the ALCS. Good riddance.
You missed my point saying the Cubs don't have a rich history. Of course they have several players in the Hall Of Fame, and it was refreshing to see you dropping the Billy Williams reference on all of us. The point I was conveying is that the Chicago Cubs have a horrible playoff history, and isn't that the time when it matters the most? Everyone seems to anticipate something bad happening to the Cubs as soon as the playoffs start. Who doesn't remember Alex Gonzalez letting a potential inning-ending double-play ball go right through his legs immediately AFTER the Steve Bartman incident. In fact, if there was no Gonzalez error, then there is no Steve Bartman. I could go on and on about the Billy Goat Curse of 1945, and how they failed to win just one out of three games in San Diego during the 1984 NLCS, but it starts to remind me of old Cleveland Browns stories, so I will digress.

The fact that the Rays have no natural rival is not a good thing. Every great "story" (as you dubbed this Barnes), has an evil and a hero. The Rays are a hero without a villain. While the Cubs have their playoff history behind them acting as the overseeing nemesis preventing them from reaching their Utopia. Both sides are necessary for a compelling story. The Cubs have it. The Rays, unfortunately, do not.

Right now, make no mistake, the Rays are the better story. They are on the verge of clinching the AL East and have essentially knocked the New York Yankees out of the playoffs for the first time since 1995. Who doesn't love that? For the Rays, everything that happens after the playoffs start is gravy. However, for the Cubs, it is not enough to JUST get to the playoffs, they have been there many many times, yet they ALWAYS fall short. That resonates with the general public. It's the same reason the Red Sox winning the Series in 2004 was such a huge history. They finally got over the hump. It's the same reason movies like "Rocky" and "Cool Runnings" are American classics.

Go ahead and watch this video. It is simple and yet still shows how the Cubs winning the World Series would be the better story.

That's pretty compelling stuff. It's crazy to think that the last time the Cubs won it all happened BEFORE The Titanic sank.

The Cubs have some of the most depressing playoff history in all of professional sports. If they win the World Series, that would be the better story. Their history trumps whatever the ten-year old Rays franchise has to offer. The Rays winning would be a nice story, but the Cubs winning would truly be history. And baseball is all about history.

MATT BARNES: September 25th, 12:07 AM

How dare you dismiss the Casey Blake playoff beard? It's just classic. But we can make that a debate for another day.

After reading your latest argument, I wanted to give you a tissue ... cause all you did was whine about how the Cubs squander away regular season success. I don't know about you but when you have the money they have, the fan base they have, and the amazing history they have, seeing them win a World Series just doesn't exactly excite me.

You know what does excite me and most of America though? Seeing a team like the Rays defy all odds. They haven't even had the resources to even have a chance to screw up like the Cubs. I know they have no natural rival but to say they didn't have a villain in this amazing story is wrong. The villain was everyone who didn't believe in them, and that's a lot of people, including you and I when the season began.

Give it up Luke. As much as you can bring up Bartman and Billy Goats, the Cubs are old news almost now. Seeing them choke over and over again has killed much of the enthusiasm to seeing them actually win the World Series. If they actually do it, most of America will say "Finally!" and move on with their lives. Like I said in the last post, once the Red Sox did it, it took the luster off the Cubs' eventual World Series title. It's just not that big of a deal as it once was and definitely not as good a story the Rays' ride.

The Rays making the playoffs is a great story but it's not THE story as you claim. A lot of teams have moved from the worst record in a sport to the playoffs before (2008 NHL playoffs - Philly Flyers). But if they win the World Series, oh buddy. And while I know ESPN will make it seem like the Cubs winning is the biggest thing since sliced bread (like USC-OSU, Brett Favre retiring/unretiring, anything dealing with the Patriots, etc...), you and I both know what the Rays have done and could do in the World Series would be the better story for ESPN, MLB and people everywhere.

America loves underdogs. The Rays qualify no doubt. The Cubs ... not so much. Not with that payroll, fan base, and history. And if you need further proof the Rays are the better story, check this out. The Rays were asked who will throw out the first pitch of their first playoff game. And they had no idea. Why? Because they are in an unprecedented spot and with their lack of history and popularity, the only names kicked around were Wade Boggs and Dick Vitale. Yikes.
If the Cubs win, good for them. 100 years in the making. 'Bout time. But if the Rays win, it will just what baseball and frankly America needs. Our economy is in the depths of hell, just like the Rays once were. America needs a team that relates to where we are. If the Rays win it all, not only now is it already the better story, but it provides inspiration to all. It can happen folks. It can happen. Go Rays!

LUKE FLORENCE: September 25th, 1:55 AM

I have to tell you, if I were ranking your arguments thus far, that last piece of nonsense would go straight to the bottom. Basically, you are trying to say that Tampa Bay is America's Team and that me and you acted as "villains" for the Rays because we didn't believe in them?? I honestly don't know how to respond to that, except that you must have been watching an unhealthy amount of FOX News before you wrote that. You are also arguing like the Rays winning it all would solve the economical crisis or solve world hunger. Ridiculous and downright dumb.

Then you throw in the Philadelphia Flyers out of left field as a representative of why the Rays making the playoffs is not the big story. Oh that's right, the Flyers back in 2008, wasn't that their first time EVER reaching the NHL playoffs? I don't think so. Not even close Barnes. Nice try. Wait ... no it wasn't.

You have to clump the Rays in with the Florida Marlins and the Arizona Diamondbacks. Two expansion franchises that quickly vaulted into the playoffs and went on to win the World Series. They are nice stories, but they are forgettable in the long run. They are the teams that when you go back and try to remember what year they won, you can't, because they blend in with each other.

Here's a story for you, one that people will remember. A franchise, one that hasn't won a World Series since 1908, finally triumphs over their Albatross which is the MLB playoffs and wins it all. It doesn't get much better than that. And thanks for the tissue Barnes. Cubs fans appreciate it.

Oh, and saying that seeing the Cubs choke over and over just drives home my point. We EXPECT that to happen with the Cubs. We don't EXPECT them to WIN. This is where the Red Sox comparison comes in. Even when Boston was one out away from winning it all and the weak ground ball was fielded by the pitcher, Keith Foulke, you still thought he would throw it away. But he didn't. They finally won. It was something that every sports fan can resonate with and one they will always remember. Whenever the Cubs win it all, this will happen again. Probably even more so, because the Cubs have suffered more than any other sports franchise.You make this too easy Barnes when you talk about how the Rays don't even know who will throw out the first pitch in the playoffs. They have no back-story, they have no history. Yes they are a professional baseball franchise, but they are not on the same level of the Cubs, Yankees, and Indians - teams that have been a part of baseball's history.

It takes one major thing for the Rays to be a part of that. Time. They are only ten years old, babies in comparison to the Cubs. So what if they win? There will be no over-bearing historical significance. Yeah it's a nice little story for the baseball season, but then everyone will forget about it. However, if the Cubs win it all, especially this season - the 100 year anniversary of their last Championship - well, now that would be something that no sports fan would ever forget.

THE END ... PLEASE LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK